The People's Orchestra and The People's Show Choir Podcast, September 2025: Saphran Ali and Jamie Parker

Intro with Matt and Chris (0:00)

0:06 Jamie Parker: Hello! You’re listening to The People’s Orchestra and The People’s Show Choir Podcast. Please welcome Matt Ward and Chris Weber!

0:12 Matt Ward: Thanks, Jamie – more of Jamie to come later. And as usual, we’ll be informing you about what’s happening now, and looking ahead to what’s coming up for The People’s Orchestra and The People’s Show Choir. What do we have this month, Chris?

0:22 Chris Weber: Hey – it’s another marvellous episode this month. We’ve got interviews with super-conductor Saphran Ali, and of course digital comms with Jamie Parker…

0:32 Matt: …who we just heard from! But before that, Chris, what is this month’s Musical Word of the Month?

Musical Word of the Month: rubato (0:38)

0:38 Chris: The word of the month is rubato – Italian for “stolen time”. It is a term referring to expressive and rhythmic freedom, by a slight speeding up and then slowing down of the tempo of a piece, at the discretion of the soloist or the conductor. Rubato is an expressive shaping of music that is part of phrasing. While rubato is often loosely taken to mean playing with expressive and rhythmic freedom, it was traditionally used specifically in the context of expression, as speeding up and then slowing down the tempo.

What have the choirs been up to? (1:20)

1:20 Matt: Cheers, Chris. So what have the choirs been up to over the last month?

1:24 Chris: Well, as you know, during the summer break not a lot happens in terms of rehearsals, but we had a couple of fantastic days out to go and support our choirs. One of the days out was to York, where we did two performances in the local area, and then we had an afternoon out in York, which was lovely. And then we had a day out in London, and we did some busking. We spent a lot of time travelling around London on the Underground, and we sang in Woodford to support our Woodford choir, and in Wimbledon to support our Wimbledon choir. So yeah, we had a really good time.

2:00 Matt: Excellent – sounds amazing. When you were on the Tube, did you have to book a slot so that you could stand there and busk?

2:07 Chris: No, because we didn’t actually busk on the Underground! The Underground itself was a real challenge, though – a whole group of people all trying to get on and off at the same time, on Tubes that were packed. There were a couple of occasions where we did get split up and got a bit lost, but thankfully everybody knew where they were meant to get to, and managed to get there.

Busking in London, Woodford and Wimbledon (2:34)

2:30 Matt: Well, that sounds fantastic. Let’s have a listen to some of that busking.

[Music: the choirs busking in Woodford and Wimbledon]

Saphran Ali, TPO conductor (4:36)

4:36 Matt: All right – what have we got coming up?

4:38 Chris: Today we’re joined by Saphran Ali, a Midlands-born conductor, musician and educator whose enthusiasm for music is infectious.

4:45 Matt: Alongside teaching and leading ensembles across Birmingham, Saph brings his energy and expertise to The People’s Orchestra and The People’s Big Band, inspiring our players to bring out the very best in every performance. His passion for making music accessible and joyful is at the heart of everything he does, and we’re so excited to have him with us today. Hi, Saphran!

5:05 Saphran Ali: Hi, everyone – how are we all doing?

5:07 Chris and Matt: Very, very well, thanks. Hi, Saph!

5:10 Matt: You’ve spoken before about loving the process of seeing a piece develop, from those very first tentative notes to the final performance. What is it about that journey that excites you most as a conductor?

5:18 Saph: It’s quite an interesting one, actually. As an educator, you always have a start point and an end point, and it’s just something that’s ingrained in me – as a player, as a student myself, and now as a teacher and a conductor. I just think that’s the process. When I go into a rehearsal, I’m always thinking: well, that’s where we started – where do we want to get to by the end of today? Of course, the end goal is the concert, the performance, but the stepping stones of how to achieve it are something that really fascinates me. I quite often go home after rehearsals, sitting there thinking, “is there something I’ve missed there? Something I can maybe do?” – and asking fellow conductors and fellow players how they get around things. It’s an ongoing journey for me, as well as for the players, and it really fascinates me. That learning step, I suppose, is just being a teacher – everything’s about learning.

6:15 Chris: And you’re a brass player yourself, aren’t you? One specific instrument, or multiple instruments?

6:20 Saph: My first instrument is the euphonium – which is a funny story, actually. I started on it because it was the first brass instrument that was shown to me when I started secondary school, and I couldn’t play it – I couldn’t produce a sound on it; I couldn’t buzz my lips. So I signed up for lessons, because I wanted to do it – I’m quite stubborn like that. And the teacher was like, “well, which would you like to try?” “The one starting with E – the euphonium. Yeah, I want to learn that one.” Not many people ask for that instrument – it’s not a well-known brass instrument. “Are you sure?” “Yeah.” So, as my teacher would always do, he ignored my request and gave me a French horn. “Try it out on a French horn first.” I played a few notes on the French horn – he taught me how to properly buzz and make a sound, because before, I just put it on my face and blew as hard as I could. So that was quite fun – actually making some notes. And he goes, “OK – next week, would you like to start properly on the French horn?” “No, no, no – the one starting with E!” The following week, he puts a trombone in my hand and leaves me to it. And, as trombonists would all agree, you’re just sliding away with your arms, making all these glitzy sounds – it was great fun. “Well, I think you could start on trombone – you sound great on trombone.” “Nope. I want to start on the one starting with E – the euphonium.” “OK, fine.” And the rest, as they say, is history.

7:52 That’s my main instrument. It’s the one I still play to this day, in a brass band, at quite a high standard. I then took up the trombone just before I went to music college, so I do know trombone as well – I’ve played that in orchestras, wind bands and brass bands all over the place. And as well as that, I like to learn the rarer instruments that are used within orchestras. In brass bands we have the baritone horn, so I play that as well, with orchestras – the last one I did with an orchestra was a Mahler piece which features a baritone horn. Great fun. And I also taught myself the bass trumpet, which is a very rare instrument in orchestras – but it’s so much fun; I really enjoy it. So I have the euphonium and trombone as my main instruments, and I branch out to as many as possible.

8:40 Chris: So you really like the unusual instruments!

8:42 Saph: Oh yes – oh yes!

8:45 Chris: The interesting thing for me there, Saph, is – as you know, I’m a choir leader. I only need to be able to sing; I only need to be able to teach people what they have to sing. I don’t have to know lots of instruments. But you’ve got a whole range of different instruments in front of you when you’re conducting an orchestra, and you only play one family of that orchestra. So as an active player as well as a conductor, what insights do you think that gives you into, (a) what makes rehearsals and performances enjoyable for musicians, and (b) how you can help and assist with technique on the other instruments?

9:18 Saph: I think the first part of that is, like you said, the enjoyment and engagement within the rehearsal. At the end of the day, we’re all just musicians, and we just want to make good music and have fun. So, taking out the instrument-specific side of things, we’re all looking for the same thing: an enjoyable performance, yet being challenged and learning as we go along, and that engagement with the music and the context behind it. That’s for all of us, regardless of instrument.

9:55 Then, from that, like you said, there are the instrument-specific things. Something I remember from when I first started as a conductor – something I’ve always tried to do in rehearsals – is honesty. I’m looking for a specific sound, and I’m just really, really honest with the players, especially early on, and say, “look, I would like this sound. You’re the experts on your instrument – how could you achieve that?” And the players love that, because they get that involvement and engagement. So through conversations with the players, and with fellow conductors or friends who play those instruments, you build up this catalogue of how you could maybe achieve these things, so you can talk a bit more to the players about them. But I think the main thing is just being honest and saying, “I really want this specific sound – I think this is how you could maybe do it on, say, a string instrument or a wind instrument; is that possible?” And you’ve seen this in rehearsals, Chris – sometimes the dialogue comes back as, “oh yes, we can do that”, and sometimes, “no, that’s quite challenging on our instrument”. And then I’m very open, and say, “OK – teach me”. So it’s a learning curve for me as well. It’s not just me teaching, or educating, or instilling knowledge in one direction – it becomes a two-way involvement and engagement.

11:15 Matt: Yeah – we can hear how passionate you are, and you’re known for your enthusiasm on the podium. It’s quite infectious. How do you see that energy feeding back from the orchestra to you during rehearsals and concerts?

11:30 Saph: Yeah, it’s quite an interesting one, actually. I know some conductors, and some players and actors, say they plan on being energetic and vibrant. I don’t plan on doing that – it just oozes out of me. It just happens, especially when something good is happening – it just comes out, and you start bubbling with excitement. And probably the hardest thing for me is actually controlling that excitement, because I’m there to do a job as a conductor, not to dance and be flamboyant. I’m there to help the players in front of me stay in time, and get the style, the shape and the musicality of the performance. But it’s really, really infectious, and it doesn’t just come from me. I feel it from the room, and from around the orchestra. That was noticeable from my first rehearsal, and still to this day it comes from different places at different times – not always from the same individuals or the same section. And that really just gets you going. It’s sort of like a drug sometimes: “I want more of this, I want to do more, I want to go again”. It’s just so exciting and really, really energetic.

12:55 Matt: I’m sure the musicians feel the energy from you as well.

12:58 Saph: Yeah. A lot of people call it excitement, energy, enthusiasm – I call it exhaustion! It really does take a lot out of you sometimes. But it’s so worth it.

13:15 Chris: So, performance day arrives. You’ve done all the hard work, you’ve been putting it all together. I always think of it a little bit like a football manager, who does all the training and all the tactics, but as soon as that whistle goes, it’s down to the players to perform. How does that moment just before the first note feel? Is that control still there? Is it excitement? Is it nervousness?

13:45 Saph: You’ve hit the nail on the head there, Chris. It’s one of those things you don’t really have a huge amount of control over when it comes to the performance. You have a little bit of say – and I think your football manager analogy is spot on. You do all the training, all the coaching, and then when you’re there, you can influence a little bit, like a manager would substitute players to help the team, or change the formation. It’s very similar: I can help and support by waving my arms a little bit differently, or giving cues, or giving support if they get lost. But it’s out of your hands. I read in a book about conducting that the conductor is the silent performer, and that is the hardest thing to get your head around – being a silent performer, not being able to produce the sound yourself. You’re having to encourage and support. So it’s something I always go in with in my mind.

14:45 When we come into performances, it’s something I found really challenging at the early stages – how to control it. But something I always think in the back of my mind is that, like you said, the energy is absorbed from me by the players and vice versa – so my moods and emotions will also be going through that. So the thing I’m thinking when I’m going to the podium is: I have no control over this now. We’ve done the work. It will be great. It will be great. If you have that mindset, then yes, mistakes happen – no one’s perfect; there are a few mistakes here and there, things that are out of your control – but if I can be as calm as possible on my side, then hopefully that will kind of osmose to the rest of the orchestra.

15:40 Admittedly, I’ve been there where I’ve come onto the podium thinking, “oh, this piece isn’t going to be right – this section haven’t practised their part”. And then the players know that – they can feel that – so they get nervous, and they won’t play as well as they could have done. Whereas if you just stay calm – and nine times out of ten, if you keep calm and just think, “it will be fine; whatever happens, we’re still friends; it will be fine” – the players will just go, “ah, OK – we’ve got through that, we’ve made it work”, which is great.

16:21 Matt: So are the performances the pinnacle? Or do you get to a point in rehearsals where you think, “right, we’ve got it”? Do you have any favourite moments where you feel like it’s all come together – does it just happen at the concert, or is there a point in rehearsals?

16:35 Saph: I think each performance has varying points. I’ve been with The People’s Orchestra for a while now, so there are pieces where we have peaked at the concert – great, amazing. And there are – admittedly, and it’s not something we should hide; we should be honest about it – times when we get to a point in rehearsal where it’s “yes, well done, fantastic”, and then something in the concert just dips slightly, and it’s not quite there. It’s still a fantastic performance, don’t get me wrong, but there’s that slight little thing that all players have – even professionals all have that experience. I always think it’s about being honest about it: it happens; it’s fine. There isn’t any single peak moment, and it won’t always be at the concert that it’s at its best – there are so many varying factors that could change. So as long as the overall performance is a success – which every single one has been, in my experience – you’ve got to think about the wider picture. Yes, there might have been one or two wrong sections, and it didn’t quite work out in that little bit, but that’s three seconds in a two-hour concert, which, in hindsight, isn’t much at all. So you have to think about balancing it overall.

18:05 Matt: Yeah – look at it holistically.

18:07 Saph: Yeah, of course.

18:10 Chris: Saph, one final question from me. What is it that makes The People’s Orchestra particularly special to you? Is it the ethos, the people, the good work that members’ subscriptions help to support?

18:25 Saph: Mainly for me it’s the ethos – it’s absolutely what I believe in. Coming from a normal working-class background, from quite a deprived area of Birmingham, and seeing the opportunities that I got – I wish there had been something like The People’s Orchestra when I was growing up. I had great opportunities through my music service, but having external opportunities would have been so, so special: a community-based place to perform, to learn, to try your instrument – like the Rusty Players, for example. It’s just such a great idea. If it’s not community-based music, it doesn’t return to where music actually started. Music started with little groups – communities sitting together, singing, banging a drum, playing instruments. It started from that. So the ethos that we have gives those opportunities. And it’s because of that ethos, and the belief that I have in the players – we have such amazing players from different backgrounds, all coming together to make that one thing, which is amazing music. That’s the thing that just makes my heart flutter.

19:40 Chris: And you know what, Saph? Every single one of those people – and I can speak for all of them, because I’m one of them – really appreciates everything that you do. We thank you.

19:55 Matt: Yeah – thank you. And thanks for taking the time to talk to us today.

20:00 Saph: No problem at all – it’s been wonderful. I love seeing you all at the concerts – I love seeing everyone at the concerts. The collaborative side of it all is just absolutely amazing. I can’t wait for the next one already!

20:12 Matt: Brilliant.

20:13 Chris: Nor can we. Cheers, Saph.

20:15 Saph: Thank you very much, everyone.

20:18 Matt: And as Saph just said, the thing that makes The People’s Orchestra so special is the ethos, the member support, and the opportunities provided within our communities. If you’d like to help us keep that spirit alive – whether through music education, community projects, or simply giving more people the chance to play and sing together – we’d be so grateful. You can donate by visiting thepeoplesorchestra.com and clicking the Donate button at the top of the page. Every contribution, big or small, truly helps us make a difference.

Little Notes from the Heart (20:55)

20:55 Matt: As usual, you’ve been sending in your Little Notes from the Heart.

[Jingle: “Little notes from the heart”]

21:05 “I would like to say a massive thank you to Nora Darlington, who is just a wonderful, warm, funny, vibrant person. I’m so lucky that she’s my friend, and I’m really lucky that she encouraged me to join the choir with her. We’ve not regretted it for a moment, and we have a wonderful time each and every Monday. She is just fantastic fun, and helps me to get the very best out of the experience each week. And I love her very much.”

21:35 Claire Adams: Hi, I’m Claire Adams, and I would like to thank Charlotte Champneys from West Bromwich choir for all the hard work she puts into our rehearsals, to get us ready and help us sound amazing for our concerts. She will be going on maternity leave soon, and we will miss you.

22:00 “Hi – I’ve never done one of these before, but hopefully this will work. I would just like to thank Cyrilene for introducing me to this choir. I was struggling with the death of my mother, having been her full-time carer for over six years, but being part of this group has given me a sense of purpose, and I’ve enjoyed preparing for and performing in the beautiful venues we’ve been in, like Symphony Hall and Birmingham Town Hall. I’m looking forward to our next set of songs, and hopefully our next performance. So once again, thank you, Cyrilene, for dragging me along. I hope to see you all soon. Bye.”

22:45 “I do have another thank you – to another person who makes every Monday just wonderful. I don’t think I’d be part of a choir, or this choir, if it wasn’t for you, Chris, because you are just fabulous at what you do, and you make the whole thing so much fun. You make me laugh, and you are just a super-duper guy. So thank you for making us welcome, and for giving us a lot of joy on a Monday.”

[Jingle: “Little notes from the heart”]

Jamie Parker on being part of TPO (23:33)

23:33 Chris: Now, our next guest is someone who has truly grown with The People’s Orchestra family.

23:38 Matt: Yes – Jamie Parker first joined us as a Kickstart volunteer, but it didn’t take long for everyone to see just how talented, dedicated and invaluable he was to the team. From editing videos and shaping our digital communications, to rolling up his sleeves and helping out at concerts, Jamie has become an integral part of everything we do, and is now our digital communications coordinator. Hi, Jamie – how are you?

24:00 Jamie: Hello – I’m all right, thank you. How are you?

24:02 Matt: I’m very well, thank you. So, a lot of people see your finished videos and communications online, but don’t realise the work that goes into them. Can you tell us a bit about your day-to-day role?

24:12 Jamie: I’m in charge of the organisation’s social media and YouTube channel, and I also help out at our live concerts. I’m one of the staff running about, fetching equipment, attending to members if they’ve got any questions or need any assistance. So there’s a lot that I do besides the social media that takes up a fair chunk of my day – every day is different in that regard. On concert days, I help our main videographer, Matt Wood, who’s a lovely guy and a brilliant camera operator. He teaches me a lot of camera direction, which, when I was studying for my degree, was something I wasn’t very confident with and couldn’t quite get the knack of. I’m an editor at heart – I love editing. I have edited a few videos for the YouTube channel, but usually when it comes to concert videos, Matt does it all, and he’s very good and very fluent at the editing, so they get out quicker. But that doesn’t mean I haven’t edited for TPO in recent times. Sometimes I’ve had to edit audio pieces together for this particular project, or for social media – there are the clips of Ula conducting that you may have seen around on Facebook, advertising all the various times; I had to edit a lot of those to make sure they were communicating the exact vibe that we want to give people, to attract them to come to choir and join our many ensembles. So it is still quite challenging, because you have to keep on the ball, putting out content to make sure things work.

26:11 Chris: I am blessed to have the joy of working with you on a day-to-day basis in the office…

26:15 Jamie: Cheers!

26:16 Chris: …and I know you get a real buzz from the engagement people have with your social media posts. Talk us through how that feels.

26:22 Jamie: I will say it does feel very nice – and also very strange. I’ll literally have a blank document, a blank template, and I’ll think, “what do we need to talk about that we haven’t done before, that people would enjoy?” So I write something out, and I make sure it’s all accessible, because we do have people in the choirs, and in other places, with disability needs. At first, in the first few minutes, nothing will happen – and then by lunchtime you revisit it, and suddenly it’s got about 50 reactions and 30 comments, that sort of thing. I think that’s quite a magical thing to see.

27:15 Matt: We’ve noticed that with the podcasts, because your posts are what drive people towards listening to the podcast, and we certainly see spikes in the listenership when you put one out.

27:22 Jamie: Oh, that’s brilliant – great to hear!

27:25 Matt: So you get to see the orchestra, choirs, Rusty Players and Big Band from a unique perspective. Do you have a favourite moment that you’ve captured on film, or a performance that really stood out for you? People actually see these things through your lens, really.

27:42 Jamie: Every moment has got some special attachment, definitely. When “It’s Raining Men” was performed by the choir and the orchestra at Birmingham Symphony Hall, the atmosphere was just electric – it was really, really great.

28:08 Another aspect of my job is announcing the concerts. People hear this sort of voice of God coming from the heavens – people think it’s an audio recording, but it’s actually me backstage with a microphone and a little desk stand, doing the announcing. And I love it. If I could do that more often, I would, because I really love doing that sort of voice performance. When I go into it, I imagine myself as the voice artist for Strictly – “please take to the floor!” – so I use that for the concert. I remember the first time I did it, at Birmingham Town Hall, during the Christmas concert of 2023. It was really satisfying to hear the audience get whipped up by it.

29:00 Matt: Well, let’s test it out! Jamie, why don’t you give us an announcement for the TPO Podcast, introducing Chris Weber and Matt Ward? Let’s do that now – show us your voice!

29:12 Jamie: OK, OK, OK… Hello! You’re listening to The People’s Orchestra and The People’s Show Choir Podcast. Please welcome Matt Ward and Chris Weber! I mean – that’s very on the fly.

29:30 Matt: You didn’t even have it written down!

29:32 Chris: Superb!

29:33 Jamie: I need to refine it a bit more than that.

29:35 Matt: That was perfect – as a live announcement, that was great.

29:38 Jamie: Thank you very much.

29:40 Chris: Brilliant. So you’ve talked about the fact that you do two different things, haven’t you? You’re not just behind the computer screen – you also work at the live events and help out. What’s it like juggling both of those roles? Because both roles seem quite intense.

30:00 Jamie: When my role became mainly focused on social media, it was at a time when we really, really needed help with it, and I was thrown in at the deep end. Although I touched on social media a bit during my film degree, I was not at all clued up on any of the platforms apart from Facebook, which I mainly use. But thankfully, along the way I have learned a lot – and it’s still a learning curve, because it’s changing all the time. I speak to people from the Arts Council who are digital experts, and there’s a lovely lady I really look forward to having meetings with, called Katie Farrell, who works for the Arts Council as a digital tech champion. She gives me expert, clear advice about what’s changed in social media land, how to structure your posts, what to look out for, and all the different technicalities. That’s been educational, and has really, really benefited me in my role. So to cope with it, I’ve had to learn – I’ve had to learn, on concert days, to remember to get my phone out and practise recording the orchestra and recording the choirs. And thankfully, being with Matt Wood – who, I will say, has been a mentor in a lot of things…

31:50 Matt: He’s almost got a really good name!

31:52 Jamie: Yeah – almost! He just needs to change that O to an A!

31:55 Matt: Almost – just a couple of letters! But I think what you’re saying, Jamie, is that you’re learning on the job as you go, which is really great, isn’t it?

32:05 Jamie: Yes, most definitely. I am growing in confidence in this role. And the skills you pick up will always have value – they’ll always be useful in ways you’d never expect. I think that should be comforting to anybody out there who might be struggling with direction, or with where they want to go.

32:30 Matt: Jamie, thank you so much for talking to us today. It’s been absolutely brilliant – it’s lovely to find out about what you’re doing.

32:35 Jamie: Any time – thank you.

32:37 Chris: Thanks, Jamie.

What to look forward to next month (32:58)

32:40 Matt: And if you’d like to try out one of our choirs or orchestras, simply head to thepeoplesorchestra.com to find out how to sign up for two weeks free for The People’s Orchestra, one of our 20 show choirs, four Rusty Players Orchestras, or the Big Band.

32:58 Coming up in September: we’re back after our summer break and ready to start rehearsing all over again. Our choir and orchestra members have been itching to get back into the swing of music-making. Following our successful recruitment drive throughout July and August, we’re excited to welcome lots of new faces and voices to our choirs across the country.

33:20 Chris: And it’s not too late to join them. Simply head to thepeoplesorchestra.com to find out how to sign up for two weeks free for The People’s Orchestra, one of our 20 show choirs, four Rusty Players Orchestras, or the Big Band.

33:35 Matt: Our ensembles will be starting to work on their repertoire for the upcoming mass concerts in various places around the country in December – we’ll be talking more about those further down the line in future podcasts.

33:45 Chris: And we’ve also just opened up sign-ups for our international tour next summer. If you fancy an amazing experience of camaraderie, fun and friendship whilst performing on international stages, make sure you sign up for your free trial now! Thank you for listening to this episode of The People’s Orchestra and Show Choir Podcast – join us for more of the same in October.

34:10 Matt: Visit our website, thepeoplesorchestra.com, and follow The People’s Orchestra and The People’s Show Choir social media channels. And if you would like to find out more about how I can help you with making a podcast for your organisation, take a look at my website, audioeditingsecrets.com, and follow my social media channels, which are @audioeditingsecrets on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. I’ve been Matt Ward…

34:40 Chris: …and I’ve been Chris Weber.

34:42 Matt: It’s goodbye from him…

34:43 Chris: …and it’s goodbye from me. Thank you for listening!